Thursday 11 February 2021

Argument and Debate are now a Waste of Time

I no longer have any interest in discussing anything to do with the world with people who are not at least open to the fact that we are in the midst of a spiritual war and that the battle is over souls. I am not interested in looking at political or cultural factors. There may well be such but they are only symptoms of the underlying spiritual malaise and to address them without addressing that is a distraction and a waste of time. It is obvious that socialism only arises when a civilisation enters its decadent phase. It is obvious that art and culture have been working against real truth and beauty for well over a century. It is obvious that most science follows the funding. It is obvious that feminism is destructive to higher values and a healthy relationship between men and women. It is obvious that when, as egalitarian ideology does, you prioritise quantity over quality, culture collapses. If you don't see these things by now you are wilfully blind. There is no point in arguing about such matters.

For a long time I tried to speak to people about spiritual things from within the context of worldly things by which I mean while not overtly rejecting all progressive secular doctrine or else by trying to find some justification for it in that the past was clearly far from perfect and injustices needed addressing. I tried to build a bridge between the spiritual and the secular when I spoke to anyone who might be interested in what I thought (which was not many people!). I started off not doing this but was called extreme and intolerant in my attitude which perhaps I was. So I moderated my words so as not to frighten the horses and tried to fit the spiritual talk into something of a modernist ethos though always with the spiritual as over-riding everything. But that was a mistake. You cannot compromise with the world. If you do, you just dilute the spiritual and it ends up as subordinate to the secular. So you must reject the secular in toto. That is more apparent than ever now when the results of compromise are clearly to be seen. Officially, the spiritual is dead and gone. It exists as a museum artefact of no real relevance, something that some people still pay a token tribute to but which signifies nothing really meaningful to them.

The situation is now so far gone that we cannot compromise with the world in any way. The world has become evil and those who don't recognise that and don't separate themselves from it will be dragged down with it. Nice, decent, kind people will be dragged down if they don't wake up to the truth. Their niceness, their decency, their kindness will then be known for what they are which is spiritual evasion and irresponsibility. Spiritual cowardice, in fact.

It's time to see things for what they are. Yes, we have come to the dying phases of Western civilisation. The traditional pattern has been followed in which people have struggled to create something and then what they have created results in a material abundance in which degeneration sets in. But this time there is something more. People can point to parallels with ancient civilisations and their decline and these parallels certainly exist. Some of them I mentioned earlier. But the spiritual darkness is greater now. We rose higher in a material sense and and have fallen more spiritually. This is a time of gathering in of souls. A final testing to see which ones have truth in them in a time of lies and which ones stick with the lies for personal advantage or ease or laziness or spiritual rottenness. It is a time of judgement. It is not just we who are being judged but we are being tested to see if we ourselves can judge with righteous judgement,  judge between good and evil and between spiritual good and material well-being.

We now live in a world of lies, one that has got progressively worse over the last 100 years with each generation seeking greater material self-satisfaction and rejecting the wisdom of its ancestors. But we cannot blame the world if we succumb to it. We all have spiritual truth within us if we will listen to it but then we have to close down the greedy little self that always wants feeding. That self is not killed but lifted up beyond itself by love of the real good, beautiful and true which ultimately only have any meaning when centred in God. Today the battle lines are being clearly marked out and there is no discussion to be had with those who reject God.

I have labelled this piece a polemic and so it is with the excesses and one-sidedness of all polemical writing. But it is also, in my opinion, the simple truth.

21 comments:

Moonsphere said...

A great piece William.

The bifurcation of humanity continues apace, ultimately leading to the separation of the good and the evil portions into two distinct races - the latter far more numerous.

As Valentin Tomberg's meditations on the Apocalypse explain - this was connected with the bi-directional journey of Christ after His death on the Cross - simultaneously "going to the Father" and also to the depths of the evil realms of the Earth. In these writings, we find that this divergent vertical movement separated the higher self from the lower ego within Humanity. From that point forward, we would have the facility and the responsibility to discern both good and evil on a higher level. Conscience and consciousness were for the first time truly separated.

Without this sacrificial gift of Christ, humanity would not have stood a chance when the time of Anti-Christ came.

That time is now upon us, and only through Christ can we keep goodness, hope and truth within sight.

William Wildblood said...

Thanks Moonsphere. The events of the last year have really underlined this bifurcation of which you speak. Unfortunately it seems that most people are choosing the wrong side. Possibly because you can just fall into line going that way whereas to choose God you have to make and keep making a positive effort. You have to swim against the tide now.

Unknown said...

"The bifurcation of humanity continues apace, ultimately leading to the separation of the good and the evil portions into two distinct races - the latter far more numerous"

That kind of dehumanizing us vs them mentality has the potential to lead to great evil - I would be cautious there.

I much prefer the Buddhist view that bad people are merely ignorant and deluded- this keeps us compassionate towards them.

I understand Christianity is the great religion of of dualism and inheritor of Zoroastrianism - of the ultimate fight between good and evil,the belief that evil is completely real, and the ultimate separation of total good from evil.

I understand Christianity cannot accept the Buddhist idea that there are no evil men just deluded and mind-fettered men, and I respect that.

But latent in Christianity and all dualistic philosophies is the potential to utterly dehumanizing those who disagree with you and become the evil you fear.

Just a word of caution.

Moonsphere said...

@unknown

That kind of dehumanizing us vs them mentality has the potential to lead to great evil - I would be cautious there.

If you think that Christ's example towards those who have fallen is to cause harm to them - then you have not understood Christianity. Acknowledging that the end game involves a bifurcation of humanity is an act of awakening, an understanding of the high stakes of existence and the freedom we have to choose good over evil.

The only task for any Christian who has kept the faith will be to extend the hand of friendship across the divide. But right now, the task is keeping to the narrow path and identifying the true state of play.

I'm afraid that Buddhism does not offer the spiritual tools for the current age. At best, one is sidelined from the conflict, left to slowly circle in a back-eddy. But perhaps that doesn't sound too bad to some. Left to continue ones fight with earthly desires as ones God given individuality ebbs away and world evolution continues on its inexorable path.

William Wildblood said...

I also would prefer to think that bad people are merely ignorant and many of them are. But this won't do anymore as a defining position. Times have changed. I agree that we should not dehumanise or demonise others who don't agree with us but, at the same time, there is good and evil and there is spiritual truth and lies. And just as we must be careful not to dehumanise those erring souls who have taken the wrong path and made the wrong choice (a choice by the way which is often a matter of will rather than ignorance) so we must also be careful not to accept what is wrong and bad because we do not want to make a judgement. It is possible to judge with compassion. In fact it is a balance that must be struck. Any virtue which precludes other virtues (wisdom and love being the prime examples) becomes a vice, a weakness or even an indulgence.

Christianity does believe in good and evil but no religion has been more compassionate or more caring to others than Christianity. To allow the devil the same rights as God is a cardinal error that should be avoided. Obviously, one should never hate others but one must recognise right and wrong, truth and lies, good and evil and not be suckered into justifying the latter for fear of being judgemental.

Buddhism, especially modern Buddhism, does not seem able to deal with evil except of the most basic sort, hatred, violence etc. But that is material evil. There is spiritual evil also which entails the rejection of God and his purpose in creation. All to often the Buddhist just retreats from that but we must confront it head on.

William Wildblood said...

I hadn't seen Moonsphere's response when I wrote mine but she is right (I think you're a she?) that Christianity always welcomes the repentant with open arms. But the other side of that is that there must be repentance which is the recognition and full acknowledgement of sin. Sin is more than ignorance which is really just an intellectual thing. The rot today goes far deeper than just the intellect.

Unknown said...

Moonsphere-

No, I know Christian dualism does not necessarily devolve into hurting those who disagree, only that it is one of the latent dangers of Christian dualism that one must watch out for.

Its possible to have Christian compassion for evil men and hope they repent until they die. But this can - and all too often has - developed into a desire to utterly condemn or exterminate evil men.

As for Buddhism, the version I favor simply says the world is an illusion and not to be taken seriously. Since everything exists in pairs, a world of good must contain evil, and thus neither can exist without the other- and thus both are categories of the human mind and not ultimately real. The mind, by dividing up the world, creates good and evil and the task might be said to be to not be ensnared by language or the conceptual net we throw on the world to divide it into "things". The world in itself is perfect, magical, wondrous, etc, just as it is.

Such a view sees life as a game, as play. The current "bad times" are just a perfectly expected turn of the cycle. Another turn will restore good times. Or perhaps we are at the end stage of this cycle of the world. That too is not to be deplored as the world will be recreated again.

I find this perspective immensely liberating and joyfull, full of magic and wonder, but I admit it makes out if life something that is no longer "high stakes" - nothing really is at stake in this view.

As such it is not for everyone, and I respect the drama of the Christian world view, with its high stakes and potential for tragedy. It just isn't for me.

So when you say Buddhism does not have the tools to deal with our times, you are quite correct, but that is not its goal.

Unknown said...

William -

Yes, that's a reasonable position. You've outlined a dualistic version of compassion towards others. It is possible to balance the dualistic urge to morally condemn others with compassion.

Yes, Christianity has been both more compassionate towards others but also more destructive. No other culture did as much good or as much evil. That is a consequence of believing in good and evil - the desire to do good too often justifies great evil, as in the inquisition or the destruction of the Inca empire.

Buddhism is concerned with that whole realm "beyond good and evil" - for Buddhism, spirituality is getting beyond human centric notions of good and evil. As such Buddhist cultures have done great good, but have also not done great evil.

Their motivations are different.

Unknown said...

I mean Buddhist cultures have NOT done great good or great evil.

Moonsphere said...

@William
A son of Adam, as it happens.;) But I suppose Moonsphere does has a feminine feel to it. My first real connection with Anthroposophy was reading Steiner descriptions of the life after death and so the name stemmed from that originally.

@unknown

Its possible to have Christian compassion for evil men and hope they repent until they die. But this can - and all too often has - developed into a desire to utterly condemn or exterminate evil men.

I'd say more often the tendency is to mis-identify who is evil and instead persecute the innocent.

As for Buddhism, the version I favor simply says the world is an illusion and not to be taken seriously.

This gets to the heart of the matter. You "favour" this version. I don't favour Christianity - I believe in Christianity. Within esoteric Christianity there are many hard truths. Would you favour a hard truth? Or must reality conform with ones personal preferences?

I find this perspective immensely liberating and joyfull, full of magic and wonder, but I admit it makes out if life something that is no longer "high stakes" - nothing really is at stake in this view.

This does seem to be the difference between a dream and reality. What happens if you wake up. Might be a rude awakening!

Unknown said...

Moonsphere -

Buddhism isn't a belief system. In fact, Buddhism advises one to get rid of beliefs as they are a source of suffering and delusion.

Buddhism is a practice - one aspect of which is to not cling to beliefs, opinions, attitudes, about ultimate reality.

Intellectually, Buddhism is entirely deconstructive. Buddhist philosophy attempts to show uou cannot cling to any idea as they are all one sided. Beliefs provide security, a house to dwell in, and Buddhidm advises a life of freedom and insecurity.

Its a different approach to life and the world. I respect a variety of approaches.

What happens if I wake up? Well, how would I ever know? The mind does not seem able to establish the world is real or not. We can't prove it.

To believe one is awake and dealing with a real world, can only be a choice.

William Wildblood said...

Sorry Moonsphere, as you say, it must have been the moon that deceived me!

Unknown, in line with the title of this post I don't want to get into an argument or debate. I understand your position but I think it is only a halfway house. Buddhist philosophy has never really 'got' this world and the idea of creation not to mention the fact of God. These are pretty big limitations so for all its virtues, and it has many, it is not enough today when matters are being brought to a head. We've talked about this before and don't need to go into it again.

Unknown said...

I agree. Just clarifying my position in response to moonsphere.

Debate is pointless - one must choose. Have a clear idea of available options, and choose. I think we have both made our choices.

Discussion is sometimes useful to clarify available options, but I think here we both understand each others positions and have chosen.

I was just dismayed at reading moonspheres talk about separating into races, amid the current polarization, it seemed extreme.

But I am happy with both of your clarifications.

Brief Outlines said...

I can't express how much I resonate with this.

William Wildblood said...

I'm glad to hear that. It came out like this and when I looked at afterwards I thought it might be a little extreme but it's what I feel so I left it in its raw state.

Paul M said...

> But the spiritual darkness is greater now ... This is a time of gathering in of souls. A final testing ...

Christians have been saying this for 2000 years. The ancients for even longer. One of the most convincing "Yup, Jesus is definitely returning this time" I ever read was an analysis of how the (then current) Great War was the fulfilment of end-times scripture.

William Wildblood said...

That's a very reasonable point which I fully concede but I hope you won't consider this an evasion if I say that this goes beyond reason to intuition. The world is always burning but I don't believe there has ever been such a complete spiritual rejection and inversion of values as there is now. And while I have no idea of a timescale, it's better to be a wise virgin.

Anonymous said...

Some are plain ignorant and some are willfully ignorant. But some are also evil.

Anonymous said...

"I understand Christianity cannot accept the Buddhist idea that there are no evil men just deluded and mind-fettered men, and I respect that."

That's just modernist corruption. Buddha called a monk who had sex a "worthless man" to his face and certainly the Theravada canon refers to "evil men", even if the modernists try to deny it or retranslate it as "unskilful men."

William Wildblood said...

Yes, and traditional Buddhism was well aware of the machinations of demons.

KCFleming said...

“ It's time to see things for what they are. ”

Bravo.
If you can’t see it, you won’t see it.